Transcript
Ben Fallon: Today, Paul, we have a question from a pastor in Latin America who asks, “Can someone who constantly struggles with depression be qualified for ministry?” And then perhaps more broadly for the rest of us, “What biblical counsel do you have for those battling depression or getting through a season of spiritual drought?”
Paul Tripp: Well, I think this question is important to me because it allows me to talk about something in pastoral culture that I think is incredibly important. I am deeply persuaded that we've made the mistake of defining a capable spiritual leader in a way that is very different from Scripture. In this generation, we've tended to prioritize the big personality, macho, strong, got-it-all-together, entrepreneurial, always ready, and always-in-charge leader. It's this person who knows everything, needs nothing, is independently capable, needs no one; “Just follow me up the mountain.” And the biblical model is that God calls leaders, this is very important to understand, and it's all over Scripture, not because they are capable, but because he is! One of the most dominant names in all of Scripture, not just in the Old Testament, but comes up all over the New Testament is Moses.
Moses was called to speak, and he said he wasn't a very good speaker. In fact, he was so aware of his weaknesses and inability, he begged the LORD not to send him. And yet, Moses is one of the giants in biblical history. Or think of Gideon. God called Gideon to lead an army against that marauding, violent nation of Midian. And God finds him threshing wheat in a wine press. Now that's kind of hysterical, because you thresh wheat outside somewhere where the wind is blowing, so the chaff can separate from the wheat. But he's doing it in an enclosure because he's afraid of the very people that God's calling him to defeat. And when God calls him, Gideon's response is, “I'm the least son of the least tribe in all of Israel. This must be a massive mistake that you would call me. But God did. And God led Gideon to defeat the Midianites, not with 30,000 soldiers, and not with 3,000 soldiers, but with 300 soldiers!
Or remember what the Apostle Paul says about himself. 1 Corinthians 12:7-10:
So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Now think about this, Paul was a leader who didn't boast about his gifts, didn't boast about his strength, didn't boast about his weaknesses about his wisdom; he said, “I boast about my weaknesses.” That is completely different than the kind of leader that we would tend to push forward in our generation. I'm going to say something that some people will think is rather radical. “I would rather be pastored by a man who struggles with depression but has learned what it means to really live by faith, than to be pastored by a man who knows little about what it really means to find your strength in the Lord in everyday life.” I want to say that again, “I would rather be pastored by a man who struggles with depression but has learned what it means to, in humility and dependency, live by faith, than to be pastored by a man who knows little about what it means to find your strength in the Lord in everyday life.”
Depression isn't of itself disqualifying for a spiritual leader. Now, if your depression causes you to come to the life-shaping conclusion that God isn't who he is and isn't worthy of your trust, well, that would be disqualifying. Or if your depression would cause you to become addicted to substances that you use to numb your emotions, that would be disqualifying. But the spiritual emotional susceptibility to depression isn't. Depression is part of a whole catalog of weaknesses of mind and body that will be with us until we're in God's final kingdom.
So, what I want to do is I want to refer everyone who's listening or watching to two very well-known ministry people who fit well in the category of ministry leaders who struggled with depression. The first is Charles Spurgeon, and what I'm going to say comes from a wonderful Gospel Coalition article about Spurgeon. Spurgeon lived between 1834 and 1892. He preached to approximately 10 million people in his lifetime. Often, during the heart of his ministry, Spurgeon spoke 10 times a week, preached 3,561 sermons that are now bound in 63 volumes, in addition to the many other books that he wrote! It's amazing, Spurgeon's influence is strong today. He is still one of the dominant influences in conservative Christianity. In fact, I read Spurgeon every morning. His devotionals are pithy and practical; they help you to see yourself and see your Lord and understand his grace. And I'm very thankful for his ministry.
Now here are Spurgeon's own words:
I have suffered many times from severe sickness and frightful mental depression, seeking almost to despair. Almost every year I've been laid aside for a season for flesh and blood cannot bear the strain, at least such flesh and blood as mine. I believe, however, the affliction was necessary to me and has answered solitary ends.
Think about this, this man, who accomplished so much in his life, who was such a hard worker, literally would have these bouts of depression that were yearly. And he became convinced that his suffering was necessary to bring him closer to God. He says, “I dare say the greatest earthly blessing that God can give any of us is health, with the exception of sickness.” I love that statement. “If some men whom I know of could only be favored with a month of rheumatism, it would, by God's grace, mellow them marvelously.” I love Spurgeon. He says, “I'm with men, that they just need a little bit of sickness, because it would mellow them out.” I love Chuck!
He also thought that the huge spiritual realities, responsibilities, and burdens of ministry make a pastor at least vulnerable to depression. Here's his words again:
Our work, when earnestly undertaken, lays us open to attacks in the direction of depression. Who can bear the weight of souls without sometimes sinking to the dust? Passionate longings after men's conversion, if not fully satisfied, and when they are, consume the soul with anxiety and disappointment to see the hopeful turn aside, the godly grow cold, professors abuse their privileges, and sinners waxing more bold in sin. Are not these sites enough to crush us to the earth. How often on Lord's Day evenings do we feel as if life were completely washed out of us. After pouring our souls over our congregations, we feel like empty earthen pitchers which a child might break.
Wow! What a description of the unique spiritual burdens of a person in leadership in the church. I can't resist one final Spurgeon quote:
I'm afraid that all of the grace I have got in my comfortable and easy times and happy hours might also lie on a penny. But the good I've received from my sorrows and pains and griefs is almost incalculable. Affliction is the best book in a minister's library. Affliction is the best book in a minister's library.
It makes me think of Dr. D.A. Carson, who is so well known in the reformed community, one of the founders, of the Gospel Coalition was asked once, “What makes for a good preacher?” And his answer was a single word, “Pain.” Not only would Spurgeon not say that depression disqualified him, he would say that this struggle in the hands of God is what tempered him and propelled him to accomplish all the things he accomplished for the sake of the gospel.
The second name I want to mention is a well-known biblical name, Elijah. Here's the story. Elijah experienced this huge victory on Mount Carmel where God displayed his power and authority, and the priests of Baal were defeated. But what followed was not what Elijah expected. But what followed was not what Elijah expected. What followed was Jezebel, the queen, put a contract out on Elijah and said, basically, “May I die if I do not take your life by tomorrow.” (1 Kings 19:2).
Here's the biblical history. What it says:
Then he was afraid, and he arose and ran for his life and came to Beersheba, which belongs to Judah, and left his servant there.
But he himself went a day’s journey into the wilderness and came and sat down under a broom tree. And he asked that he might die, saying, “It is enough; now, O Lord, take away my life, for I am no better than my fathers.” And he lay down and slept under a broom tree. And behold, an angel touched him and said to him, “Arise and eat.” And he looked, and behold, there was at his head a cake baked on hot stones and a jar of water. And he ate and drank and lay down again. And the angel of the Lord came again a second time and touched him and said, “Arise and eat, for the journey is too great for you.” And he arose and ate and drank...and the passage goes on.
Here's a prophet of God, one who had seen huge success, if I could say it that way, in ministry, because of God's power working through him, yet who ended in what we would now call, in this generation, “a suicidal depression.” He couldn't conceive of doing anything but dying, and God's response to this is very important. I won't read all of the history, but God comes to him in a small voice, a whisper, and God doesn't tell Elijah because of his depression, “He was done!” God isn't shocked or disgusted by Elijah's weaknesses. No, what God does, in basically what the scripture says, “a whisper” is, he recommissions him, he encourages him with the fact that his ministry is not in vain, and he sends him back to the work that God has called him to. The Scripture is just a chronicle of God using real, weak, frail, human beings to do his extraordinary work. And maybe depression is not your area of susceptibility, but we all carry those with us. And so, I'm tremendously encouraged by Spurgeon. I'm tremendously encouraged by Elijah. I know if God can use them, there's hope for me.
BF: I think listeners will be interested in your personal experience, Paul. “Have you ever battled with depression or experienced times as a pastor, or more recently as an author and a speaker, where you just had little or no spiritual energy and affection for the Lord, but you still had to get up and write and teach and preach?”
PT: Well, I don't think I have struggled with depression in the Spurgeon way. When I was a young preacher, there were moments where I had to call somebody, one of my elders, and ask them if they would preach on a Sunday because I wasn't in the emotional, spiritual place to be able to do it. But I have endured long-term, life-altering, physical suffering. And it has rendered me weaker than I thought I would ever be. Currently, I get about a half a day of work, and then I'm done–I'm mentally and physically spent. And I'm not ashamed to admit that there are days, when in the afternoon, when I don't have strength to work; it's very frustrating and discouraging. It just seems like such a marvelous waste to me.
What do I do in those moments? I do what is the only thing I know to do. I first run to God's Word. So I am reminded that he is my strength, that he's in me and with me and for me, that he empowers those whom he calls, and that his sovereign will for me is best. This is not plan B, this is plan A. Second, I pray, I cry out for help! There are many times in those afternoons where my prayer is, “God, I want to run to you. I don't want to accuse you. I don't want to believe that you aren't good. I don't want to believe that you're unfaithful and unkind. Please help me to hold on to you.” I run to his people, whether that's Luella, there are times when I'll say to Luella, “I'm just really discouraged,” or faithful friends that I have. And then I get up the next day and do what God has called me to do.
I've found in mornings, when the afternoon before has been very hard, and I wake up a bit discouraged, the best thing for me to do is work. And what happens is I get my passion back for what God has called for me to do. I get excited about a particular passage of Scripture and my spirit changes. I have learned that my weakness is not ultimate, my Lord is! My weakness is not my identity, being in Christ is! My weakness doesn't define me or my ministry potential. My ministry potential is my Lord! I hold on to the truth that my weakness is not in the way of God's plan for me, but a very significant part of it.
This is another one of these statements that you may have to think about, but I think it's important to say, “I have come to firmly believe that my weakness is not the problem, but the solution!” My weakness is not the problem, but the solution. I was way too independent. I was way too confident in my strength. I was way too proud of my accomplishments, and that was a problem, and the solution has been weakness. Any delusions that I have had of independent wisdom, strength, and capability, are a huge spiritual problem. And weaknesses of any kind expose that delusion and drive us into the hands of our loving, patient, and empowering Savior–and that's a very good thing!
BF: Well, for those of you experiencing depression or suffering, or if you know somebody who is, I have two resource recommendations for you. The first is Paul's book, Suffering: Gospel Hope When Life Doesn't Make Sense. It exposes traps and doubts to avoid while pointing you to promises to hold on to. That book is available at paultripp.com/suffering.
And then we have a future free video series coming out in the next couple of weeks here called “Gospel Hope.” It's three sessions with a study guide if you want to listen and watch, and that will be available completely for free, available on this podcast and also from our website. So make sure that you hit the subscribe button on the Paul Tripp Podcast wherever you listen, and then also sign up to our email list at paultripp.com/subscribe. This will ensure that you receive notifications for all the free gospel content that we share as we connect the transforming power of Jesus Christ to everyday life!
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